I'm Aza Raskin @aza. I make shiny things. I simplify.

I'm VP at Jawbone, focusing on health.

 

Geolocation in Firefox and Beyond

In preparation for her keynote on the at the Web 2.0 Expo, Mitchell and I recently chatted about the “mobile web” misnomer. The misnomer is that there is going to be, long term, such a thing as a separate mobile web. There should only the one web (to rule them all), with different views into it, depending on the particular limitations or abilities of the device you are using.

One place I see the desire to separate the two webs is in geolocation. Location is often billed as the next killer-app of the mobile world, and people generally assume that it is a feature that will be bound to mobile devices. Yet, there are compelling reasons to have location information available to laptops as well: it is nice to have contextually relevant information available to me while working at a new coffee shop, traveling, or when farblonjet. At the core of the one-Web vision is the continuity of experience across all of my devices.

One of the symptoms of the the mobile-only location information is that to make something location aware, you have to deal with the large overhead of compiling an old-style application and porting it to all desired platforms. Then you have to figure out how to import the bits of the web you want into that application. It’s a pain.

What’s the solution? Adding geolocation to the browser, irrespective of whether it is on mobile or the desktop. That way writing a location-aware app is just writing a web-app with a little bit of new javascript magic.

I’ve been thinking about an API/spec, basing it on the work already done by Doug Turner and Ryan Sarver at locationaware.org. Here’s how it’s looking.

Simple call:

var geolocator = new navigator.GeolocationRequest();
geolocator.request(function(location) {
  alert( location.latitude + ', '+ location.longitude + ", " + location.accuracy );
});

That should be pretty obvious. The only bit that needs explanation is accuracy, which is a measure of how accurately the system is determining your location. Accuracy can be an enum with the these meanings: “exact”, “neighborhood”, “city”, “state”, “country”. I’ll come back to the reasoning behind doing it this way. However, it is worth thinking about also having an attribute location.errorInMeters (If you have thoughts on this, comment away!).

Complex call:

var geolocator = new navigator.GeolocationRequest();
geolocator.request({
  success: function(location) { /* We've got the location! */ },
  error: function(err){ /* There was an error getting location. */ },
  accuracy: "neighborhood"
});

Accuracy is the desired accuracy for the request. It’s there to make it easy for users and developers to see eye-to-eye on privacy and reliability. By putting accuracy into understandable, semantic, and quantized levels, we make it fast to understand what a web-app is trying to request. This way, if the user has globally allowed web sites access to their location at the neighborhood level, then any location request at the neighborhood or less-accurate level won’t cause the security/privilege UI to be invoked. And when the the request invokes the security/privilege UI, it can let the user know, in human-terms, what level of location information is being requested.

Here’s a quick mockup of the security UI. I haven’t put to much thought into ways of making this nicer yet, although I’d love something that gave a more visually compelling message of how much information you are giving out to websites.

Geolocation Security Mockup

I should be releasing a mock library for starting to play with this API soon. After that comes the real thing.

RT @aza Geolocation in Firefox and Beyond | Follow @aza on Twitter | All blog posts

View all 173 comments



Carl

While the “nothing” button is implicitly a cancel button, it would be good to have an explicit cancel button as well, since users are used to having them.


    Go to settingsaccesory settingsaudio device settings….then it should say something like find / locate audio device click that and you score!


    I have personally taken into consideration the well before, and that i notion could possibly be awesome determine allow the technique to deliver the tips inside an HTTP header, such as X-GeoLocation: …, to minimize numerous device tickets to carry out something helpful. For instance , if you ever made possible flicks. net to recognise the zipcode, you are able to continually have showtimes near you onto your primary pageload, as opposed to the internet page packing, obtaining your physical location by JavaScript, and next doing a different obtain to acquire community files



Alejandro Moreno

I agree on the Cancel button.

Also, this could be represented as a series of five concentric circles, with “Exact location” at the center, and the other options stepping through the radius, all the way to the 5th circle representing “Country.” It means that the security panel would have to be bigger. (Maybe it first opens a slim one-liner panel, and when you click that the bigger panel opens.)



Ramon Poca

About the circles, they can be concentric rounded boxes, thus not enlarging so much the notification bar.

Also, a bit of iconography could help. Something like
Exact location: a house
Neighborhood: A “street map”.
City: City map, represented as a chunk.
State: A state map
Nothing: The good old question mark

Being sophisticated, the images could be taken from some GIS database (or google/whatever maps) showing a zoom ratio concordant with the exactness you are giving. But that might be overkill.



Karel Thönissen

There are several problems in an international context.

Most countries in the world do not have ‘states’.

In Europe, there are cities with as few as a few hundred inhabitants and villages with millions of inhabitants. The concept of ‘city’ has a legal meaning to it that is not tied to size.

Then, some cities (e.g. Tokyo, 18 million inhabitants?) are larger than some countries (e.g. Luxemburg, 300_000 inhabitants).

I would simply use a logarithmic scale based on distances:

- precise location
- 100 m radius, (‘neighbourhood’)
- 1 km radius, (‘city’)
- 10 km radius, (‘large city’)
- 100 km radius, (‘small country’, ‘state’)
- 1000 km radius, (‘large country’)


    We have discussed this method in advance of when, and that i dreamed may also usually be superb which can enable the visitor to deliver this method news involved HTTP header, like X-GeoLocation: !, to attenuate cellular phone internet protokol demands in order to do something useful. Like if you should let movie films. com to fnd out credit history . zipcode, you possibly can invariably grab showtimes near you of your foremost pageload, rather than the post internet, using your region in JavaScript, after preparing one additional submission to generate native knowledge



James Heaver

There is also the issue of internationalisation and context -

State dowsn’t have the same meaning around the world, here in the UK the equivalent term would be county.

And some countries refer to themselves as states.

This is mroe than just localisation as the implications are different depending on your frame of reference.

City also poses similar issues. If I live in London, then it is obvious what is disclosed, but what if I live in a little village somewhere?

Giving the name of the village would be allot more precise than the name of a city.

PS – To view the image properly I have to right click and select view image, it is badly downscaled otherwise.


Hi,
what do you guys think about our solution? http://gpsgate.com/index.php?id=66

The approach is quite similar. It can access both a locally connected gps (the “gps-in-browser” case) and positions from any GpsGate-server. It doesn’t use any plugins or gears technology, simply xss (with white-listing).

Do you have something running one could try? Would be interesting to experiment. It seems quite possible to implement your proposal “ontop” of our services.


Nice work. BTW, Gears is doing something similar:

http://code.google.com/p/google-gears/wiki/LocationAPI

You should jump on the google-gears-eng list (http://groups.google.com/group/google-gears-eng) and collaborate with the open source Gears community. I’ve also pointed them to the work you are doing.

Best,
Brad Neuberg


in the old-school GIS world, what you’re calling “accuracy” is what we call “precision”. “accuracy”, to us (well me anyway), measures how often, by how much & how predictably the data will be right.

i think you’re missing another location bit & that is “currency” or how recently the data was collected.



Mei

How about a silhouette of a person on one end of the horizontal, with medium sized striped bars of color that grow larger as it approaches the person ? For example, the person could be at the left side of your mock up there, and the largest striped bars could go there


I’m pretty sure that the “Nothing” button isn’t “implicitly a cancel button.” “If the user has globally allowed web sites access to their location at the neighborhood level,” as Aza wrote, hitting “Cancel” would just keep it that way. Hitting “Done” should have the same result, assuming of course that the security UI shows your current setting (whether global or site specific) when it appears. An extra button would just add confusion as to what information will actually be send. “Done” implies an active decision, whether you made one or not. “Cancel” just implies that you don’t want to be annoyed.


At some point, wouldn’t a diluted degree of accuracy like “Country” be a moot point, since that could be garnered from the IP address?

I think this is a great idea. It would be so much easier, as a web developer, to let the browser figure this out, regardless of what kind of device is presented.

On a related note, I’ve often wondered why the handheld media attribute for CSS had never caught on? It seemed like it would be a great way to present the almighty “one web” in a mobile-friendly fashion. Though, I suppose it would negate the need for iPhone pinching fun…


Countries don’t necessarily have a concept of “state”; it seems like it might be a better idea to make the scale logarithmic, so perhaps 1m, 10m, 100m, 1km, 10km, 100km or something. However, then you run into the issue of measurement systems, since not everything uses metric or American systems. I think you have to do something like CSS and make it NUMBER+”m” or something (and better one unit than multiple — could even just make it a number, in that case). UI could scale this however it wanted, in whatever measurements it wanted (with quantization, even!), with a touch of internationalization pain.



Peter Kasting

Consider examining/giving feedback on the Gears LocationAPI:

http://code.google.com/p/google-gears/wiki/LocationAPI

There has already been a significant amount of work put into this, so it may be more productive to start there. (I’m not deeply familiar with that API so I don’t know whether it meets your needs.)


I’ve thought about this before, and I thought it would also be nice to be able to allow the browser to send this info in an HTTP header, something like X-GeoLocation: …, to minimize the number of server requests to do something useful. For example, if you allowed movies.com to know your current zipcode, you could always get showtimes near you on your first pageload, instead of the page loading, accessing your location via JavaScript, and then making another request to get local data.


Great idea! I agree that it would be good to make an easy transition for Gears/Android devs.


Aza,

Just watched your excellent Google talk. Entertaining, cheers. Now I know who to complain to about my horrible FF3 UX experience. ;) I mean who re-designed the nav buttons in a way that I find it infuriating to use the back history? Then there’s the inconsistent context menu that appears under right-mouse clicks; depending on whether I’m at the top or bottom of a page, it’s different! So much for blind spacial navigation. The number of times I’ve hit “Switch Page Direction” by accident now… Grrr. At least on Linux I don’t have to put up with the big round “waste of UI space” back button the Mac version has. :)

As for the Location API and interface:

For how long does Ars get to know my location? What are they allowed to do with that information? Sell it?

At a minimum there needs to be agreements displayed to the user by the service as to what the information will be used for. Might want to put that in the API for sites to tap into.

Do I even want my browser to store relational information about me? Probably not. I can already see myself having to manage not only my Identity in browser but an online one if browser manufacturers are going to be adding this DOM accessible functionality.

It would also be nice to know when my Location information was being accessed. Augment the throbber with Location API access perhaps? A red target with a site crosshairs moving over it to show activity perhaps?

Also, the ability to lock out the Location API, and having “no go zones” (like your mistresses house so your wife can’t see where you’ve gone) might be a useful feature to some. Perhaps an icon users can add to the Navigation Toolbar…



Aza

@Carl and Alejandro: You guys are right. Having an easy escape is probably the right way to go. Before I actually did the mockup, I was thinking about doing either a map or concentric circles, but I didn’t like how much of the screen that took up. I like the revealing-more idea.

@Peter: I’ve started looking into the Gears LocationAPI. There are parts that I like, and parts that I think are over-kill/clunky.



Aza Raskin

@Ted: I like that idea a lot, however I see a problem: When does that header’s information get updated? With the GeolocationRequest.request method, you request the information whenever you need it, so you know it isn’t out-of-date. But with the header information, it may be. The first time a site uses the GeolocationRequest, they can store that information in a cookie, so that on any subsequent page load another round-trip isn’t needed, and they get to decide how much they care about keeping that location up-to-date.


@Aza: yeah, clearly they’re complementary approaches. I think the HTTP header would be useful for one-shot lookups, like the movies example I mentioned, where you just want to contextualize the page the user sees, using location info from when they loaded it. This would be useful to avoid having to enter a zip code for pages you use a lot. A JavaScript API is also useful for more dynamic pages.


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skierpage

As I wrote at dougt’s blog, please also focus on the fallback case: if (navigator.geolocation) … else { /* fairly sophisticated prompt for location that remembers previous locations and some named locations, can pop-up a map, lets you enter zip, area code, etc. */ }. If your mock library does this, then awesome — it’s not just a mockup, it becomes the code that Web sites furnish to old-generation browsers.

Not only will that make for more compelling demos that we can try in current browsers, it will encourage ordinary Web sites to rapidly use navigator.geolocation in all browsers instead of balkanizing the web experience. I want optional geolocation at every “Find a store”, weather site, local TV listing, etc.; I don’t want to go to maps.google.com for it.

In your mockup, even if the browser is running on a device that can determine location, I need to be able to override it — “Give me the weather at my destination.”

Thanks for all you do!


Country & Continent are still too revealing for the privacy-oriented.

I suggest “Earth” instead of “Nothing”.

That should be okay until we start getting privacy nuts in space ;)


If anyone is interested in real time geolocation data we just released a free app for blackberry and windows mobile devices that integrates everything into the browser. All you have to do is read the incoming HTTP headers. Alternatively on Windows Mobile you can access the data via javascript. More info here…http://bit.ly/3veZeF


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Also, this could be represented as a series of five concentric circles, with “Exact location” at the center, and the other options stepping through the radius, all the way to the 5th circle representing “Country.” It means that the security panel would have to be bigger. (Maybe it first opens a slim one-liner panel, and when you click that the bigger panel opens.)


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While the “nothing” button is implicitly a cancel button, it would be good to have an explicit cancel button as well, since users are used to having them.



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I think that’s a pretty neat idea. My current watch is a Timex that mimics a chronograph digitally but has both an analog and digital face: I can hide the digital part of it by pressing a button and leave the clean lines of a analog watch (which I prefer). Since I enjoy the benefits of digital for cycling and training and such, it’s nice to have that option.


In preparation for her keynote on the at the Web 2.0 Expo, Mitchell and I recently chatted about the “mobile web” misnomer. The misnomer is that there is going to be, long term, such a thing as a separate mobile web. There should only the one web (to rule them all), with different views into it, depending on the particular limitations or abilities of the device you are using.


Ii think that site preview thumbnail is useless. It is too small to be informative. BTW, this mockups looks more like some type of “launcher”, instead of location barr.


I’m pretty sure that the “Nothing” button isn’t “implicitly a cancel button.” “If the user has globally allowed web sites access to their location at the neighborhood level,” as Aza wrote, hitting “Cancel” would just keep it that way.


In preparation for her keynote on the at the Web 2.0 Expo, Mitchell and I recently chatted about the “mobile web” misnomer. The misnomer is that there is going to be, long term, such a thing as a separate mobile web. There should only the one web (to rule them all), with different views into it, depending on the particular limitations or abilities of the device you are using.


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Ed

I am currently using a geo-pluging (geoplugin.net) to determine my web site user’s geoLocation (latitude, longitude, city, region, continent, etc…). How is your application different? Is your application only for FireFox or can it be used to extract data using PHP? Thanks!


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And always make sure it’s 100% organic (some companies
load their superfood up with Niacin and other
non-organic components — go for the organic green superfood and avoid the Niacin hangover).
Part of the confusion about superfoods comes from the fact that they are often backed up
by some legitimate scientific research; however, the conclusions may be blown way out
of proportion, becoming dubious claims eagerly accepted as fact.
When you give your body a daily dose of these super foods it’s
like renovating your body the way someone would
renovate an old house that has seen better days.

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Pumpkin- high in fiber and low in calories, pumpkin packs a fortune of disease-fighting nutrients, including potassium, pantothenic acid,
magnesium, and vitamins C and E. “Methylcobalamin is required for the function of the folate-dependent enzyme, methionine synthase. The factors included above determine your Daily energy expenditure.


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