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	<title>Comments on: Sharing Streamable Functionality</title>
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	<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/</link>
	<description>-- aza &#124; ɐzɐ --</description>
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		<title>By: DX</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-6652</link>
		<dc:creator>DX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Dec 2009 15:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-6652</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;re mistaken.

People communicate URLs effectively because there&#039;s a clear link between &quot;things&quot; and &quot;places&quot; that exists in the real world and is fairly easy to transpose.

What you&#039;re proposing is far too subtle and mentally-intensive for the public to ever master. The idea that an average person will be able to atomically catalog individual software functions and manage them by location is totally ludicrous.

And the Web is not on a push model AT ALL. Some applications of HTTP might be considered &quot;pseudo-push&quot;, at most, but the whole request / response model is totally pull-based. So I&#039;m not sure exactly why a browser requesting updates is ironic compared to anything else that happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re mistaken.</p>
<p>People communicate URLs effectively because there&#8217;s a clear link between &#8220;things&#8221; and &#8220;places&#8221; that exists in the real world and is fairly easy to transpose.</p>
<p>What you&#8217;re proposing is far too subtle and mentally-intensive for the public to ever master. The idea that an average person will be able to atomically catalog individual software functions and manage them by location is totally ludicrous.</p>
<p>And the Web is not on a push model AT ALL. Some applications of HTTP might be considered &#8220;pseudo-push&#8221;, at most, but the whole request / response model is totally pull-based. So I&#8217;m not sure exactly why a browser requesting updates is ironic compared to anything else that happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Leech</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-2794</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Leech</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 11:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-2794</guid>
		<description>So, will this work in reverse? i.e. will my existing commands be magically translated into bookmarks?

As for the whole idea of using bookmarks, I agree with you - it seems to make a decent amount of sense. However, I do think that a microformat would be a much greater step froward, giving not only users easy / useful ways to access Ubiquity commands, but also giving developers chances to do what they like with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, will this work in reverse? i.e. will my existing commands be magically translated into bookmarks?</p>
<p>As for the whole idea of using bookmarks, I agree with you &#8211; it seems to make a decent amount of sense. However, I do think that a microformat would be a much greater step froward, giving not only users easy / useful ways to access Ubiquity commands, but also giving developers chances to do what they like with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Guillaume Riflet</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-2485</link>
		<dc:creator>Guillaume Riflet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:01:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-2485</guid>
		<description>Hi,
I just wanted to congratulate you guys for the fantastic work you&#039;ve been doing with the Ubiquity add-on for firefox.
For the last couple of years (ever since I learned how to store-and-sync all my bookmarks using del.icio.us) I&#039;ve been harnessing &quot;functional&quot; bookmarklets that allowed me to do simple stuff, like twitter, translate pages, use the feeling lucky button, share stuff with several sharing devices etc...
However, I longed for some encapsulator that would allow me to centralize and document and share all these js shortcuts (something like yubnub.org, but with more functionality and more javascripting). And I really really think you did it! So thanks to all!! Looking forward to follow the Herd ;)
Cheers,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
I just wanted to congratulate you guys for the fantastic work you&#8217;ve been doing with the Ubiquity add-on for firefox.<br />
For the last couple of years (ever since I learned how to store-and-sync all my bookmarks using del.icio.us) I&#8217;ve been harnessing &#8220;functional&#8221; bookmarklets that allowed me to do simple stuff, like twitter, translate pages, use the feeling lucky button, share stuff with several sharing devices etc&#8230;<br />
However, I longed for some encapsulator that would allow me to centralize and document and share all these js shortcuts (something like yubnub.org, but with more functionality and more javascripting). And I really really think you did it! So thanks to all!! Looking forward to follow the Herd ;)<br />
Cheers,</p>
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		<title>By: Brett Dalton</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-2472</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett Dalton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 04:40:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-2472</guid>
		<description>Bookmarking of extensions looks to be a great way of sharing them with the implications of upgrade detection etc.  However there are a couple of points.

Code versioning is difficult short of having to replace bookmarks unless there is a dynamic mechinism for updating bookmarks given uses an option to upgrade or not (not difficult, add a CmdUtil function in the case of Ubiquity with the upgrade URL).

Security again can be simply handled by storing a local Hash of the script which will detect changes alerting the user.  This will prevent malicious code changes going unnoticed.

So far I&#039;m yet to see a down side except for bandwidth and load times which are becoming less and less an issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bookmarking of extensions looks to be a great way of sharing them with the implications of upgrade detection etc.  However there are a couple of points.</p>
<p>Code versioning is difficult short of having to replace bookmarks unless there is a dynamic mechinism for updating bookmarks given uses an option to upgrade or not (not difficult, add a CmdUtil function in the case of Ubiquity with the upgrade URL).</p>
<p>Security again can be simply handled by storing a local Hash of the script which will detect changes alerting the user.  This will prevent malicious code changes going unnoticed.</p>
<p>So far I&#8217;m yet to see a down side except for bandwidth and load times which are becoming less and less an issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Bicking</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-2157</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Bicking</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 18:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-2157</guid>
		<description>A little like bookmarklets?  I&#039;ve always preferred bookmarklets to extensions, when both exist (and for quite a few extensions, bookmarklet form is workable).  Like, a combination of Greasemonkey and bookmarklets...

Bookmarklets, being explicitly invoked, also have the (substantial) benefit that they can&#039;t mess your system up.  I&#039;ve had bad experience with several extensions and Greasemonkey scripts, and the inability to really understand the problems is what leads to a general suspicion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A little like bookmarklets?  I&#8217;ve always preferred bookmarklets to extensions, when both exist (and for quite a few extensions, bookmarklet form is workable).  Like, a combination of Greasemonkey and bookmarklets&#8230;</p>
<p>Bookmarklets, being explicitly invoked, also have the (substantial) benefit that they can&#8217;t mess your system up.  I&#8217;ve had bad experience with several extensions and Greasemonkey scripts, and the inability to really understand the problems is what leads to a general suspicion.</p>
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		<title>By: James Heaver</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-2033</link>
		<dc:creator>James Heaver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 10:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-2033</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a dev, so I can&#039;t comment completely.

But Songbird seem to be doing some interesting things with XUL in this regard, openign up their chrome to website etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not a dev, so I can&#8217;t comment completely.</p>
<p>But Songbird seem to be doing some interesting things with XUL in this regard, openign up their chrome to website etc.</p>
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		<title>By: MarkC</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-2004</link>
		<dc:creator>MarkC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-2004</guid>
		<description>&quot;XUL and the desktop paradigm for extension development... has a high cost of adoption&quot;.

Extension development and the desktop paradigm definitely have a high cost of adoption. XUL itself, on the other hand, has a very low cost of adoption for anyone already familiar with HTML. Indeed, in my experience, basic XUL is significantly easier than HTML simply because Gecko is the only target, so there&#039;s no need to know about cross-browser issues, and it&#039;s safe to use more modern functionality that is missing from some other browsers.

The problem is partly that _remote XUL_ doesn&#039;t receive much love and attention. In theory it should provide a great way for an existing web developer to create something more application-like, quickly and easily, whilst leveraging their existing knowledge of XML, CSS, JS and so on.

In practice it has too many artificial restrictions, which mean that in many aspects remote XUL is even more locked down than a normal web page. To make matters worse, a lot of these limitations aren&#039;t clearly documented.

Remote XUL could be a great option for bookmarkable extensionsn (and other uses), if only it were a slightly higher priority in Mozilla&#039;s eyes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;XUL and the desktop paradigm for extension development&#8230; has a high cost of adoption&#8221;.</p>
<p>Extension development and the desktop paradigm definitely have a high cost of adoption. XUL itself, on the other hand, has a very low cost of adoption for anyone already familiar with HTML. Indeed, in my experience, basic XUL is significantly easier than HTML simply because Gecko is the only target, so there&#8217;s no need to know about cross-browser issues, and it&#8217;s safe to use more modern functionality that is missing from some other browsers.</p>
<p>The problem is partly that _remote XUL_ doesn&#8217;t receive much love and attention. In theory it should provide a great way for an existing web developer to create something more application-like, quickly and easily, whilst leveraging their existing knowledge of XML, CSS, JS and so on.</p>
<p>In practice it has too many artificial restrictions, which mean that in many aspects remote XUL is even more locked down than a normal web page. To make matters worse, a lot of these limitations aren&#8217;t clearly documented.</p>
<p>Remote XUL could be a great option for bookmarkable extensionsn (and other uses), if only it were a slightly higher priority in Mozilla&#8217;s eyes.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-1994</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:59:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-1994</guid>
		<description>One more thing - extension developers would need a service hosted on chrome.mozilla.org, sorta like Force.com for Salesforce, but relying on web standards like HTML5, CSS, Javascript 2, etc. I really think hosting it is the only way to provide security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing &#8211; extension developers would need a service hosted on chrome.mozilla.org, sorta like Force.com for Salesforce, but relying on web standards like HTML5, CSS, Javascript 2, etc. I really think hosting it is the only way to provide security.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/sharing-streamable-functionality/comment-page-1/#comment-1993</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 22:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://azarask.in/blog/?p=99#comment-1993</guid>
		<description>I almost agree.

So ... imagine if the browser chrome was a website, chrome.mozilla.org, that the browser was hardcoded to display. Then you could install extensions by re-setting your chrome to chrome.mozilla.org/extensions/1843;5579 (if you wanted Firebug and PicLens). 

But changing chrome favourites is different to setting content favourites. It&#039;s a different user experience, a separate category that is always restricted to the mozilla domain.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I almost agree.</p>
<p>So &#8230; imagine if the browser chrome was a website, chrome.mozilla.org, that the browser was hardcoded to display. Then you could install extensions by re-setting your chrome to chrome.mozilla.org/extensions/1843;5579 (if you wanted Firebug and PicLens). </p>
<p>But changing chrome favourites is different to setting content favourites. It&#8217;s a different user experience, a separate category that is always restricted to the mozilla domain.</p>
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