Comments on: The “Over The Phone” Test

By: mrbig

mrbig — Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:16:43 +0000

Imagine all this when you’re outside an english speaking country. I’m from Hungary, and usually my first question is: Grandma, are you using english or hungarian windows? And the word is english or hungarian?
And I might remember some menu items only either in english or in hungrian, like: “I know it was named Control Panel in english, but how is it translated?”

By: James

James — Sun, 12 Aug 2007 06:36:46 +0000

Universal natural syntax commands — I like it! Now, how much longer will I have to wait for voice command?

By: Clark

Clark — Wed, 08 Aug 2007 08:25:46 +0000

As I was reading from a site that included anecdotes about the beginnings of the Macintosh, I mused as to why the GUI paradigm hasn’t seemed to change much in 20+ years…

… then, VOILA! I discovered humanized.com.

I like the idea that a group with serious computing experience cares enough to help bypass this tired Windows world.

After 20 years, we still have a crap GUI, which is basically akin to a few tired bells-and-whistles riding on top of ol’ MS-DOS.

So, why should we give you a hard time, here on this blog?

I think a few well-placed keys on a new-style keyboard would be better than reverting to command-line-type stuff.

The overall idea is wonderful, though, to have a streamlined, universal method to access programs, files, etc..

By: urbaer

urbaer — Wed, 11 Jul 2007 13:05:37 +0000

Control V? Why control v? Personally feel that Shift-Insert makes more sense. Okay, it’s a two handed thing, but still.

Agreed though, over the phone is horrible, especially when your mother is still running Win98…

By: Mike

Mike — Fri, 28 Apr 2006 18:07:14 +0000

Don’t get me wrong–I think it’s a good test. But it can be run on anyone who’s new to the system you’re explaining, computer-saavy or not. The basic idea of the test is “If we don’t abstract away to notions like ‘cut’ and ‘paste’ which the listener already understands, how difficult a process is this”… right? It assesses steepness of the learning curve and the monotony (in the good sense) of it in an easily conceptualized fashion–exactly what a good “litmus test” does.

The contrast between essential vs. accidental complexity is a big part of what I was trying to get at, though I didn’t have those terms–I definitely agree with you there. Some things are essentially complex, and some people are going to be afraid of that complexity. I think that’s just the way it is. I wasn’t trying to get on your case or trash your ideas; I was just getting this quixotic vibe about the changes your software was going to bring.

But hey, by all means, prove me wrong! One less hour coaching my dad how to connect to his wireless network (or whatever) is one more hour I can spend… well… figuring out how to connect to my own network!

By: Atul

Atul — Fri, 28 Apr 2006 16:55:37 +0000

Personally, I think this may be an issue of the concept of essential complexity versus accidental complexity. It’s possible, to a certain extent, that the very concept of spell-checking a document with the technologies we currently have available to us will inevitably involve some complexity and unpleasantness. In that case, though, I’d say that our goal would be to create an interface that comes as close as possible to passing the Over the Phone Test. So even if it’s a bit idealistic, I think it’s still quite useful as a sort of “litmus test” for user interfaces.

I understand your comment on humility; my apologies for any negative sentiments our words may have fostered. Being a new company that’s just started a weblog for the first time, I’m certain we have some things to learn about effective writing. Thanks for your feedback.

By: Mike

Mike — Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:27:51 +0000

Your grandmother uses webmail? It wasn't that long ago that I was coaching my mother just on how to turn a computer on.

Though you don't say it, I get the feeling that the suggestion here is that with a simpler solution (i.e. your solution) even Grandma (or Mom) will love using the computer! I'm not convinced. Okay, so you come up with a simpler way to spellcheck, but just the idea of spellcheck might boggle some people's minds. For instance, pushing a button isn't hard, but my mom definitely struggled with it, at least for a while. There's an issue of intimidation involved.

I'm also not blind to the fact that intimidation and ease (or rather unease) of use are closely conjoined, but really all you can promise to do is to make computers easier for those who already use computers. I think this is an issue of humility that it would behoove you to note.

By: Vitorio

Vitorio — Wed, 26 Apr 2006 08:30:28 +0000

I always thought the reason Cut, Copy and Paste were X, C and V were from original proofreading conventions… you know, from writing with pens and pencils on paper.

You crossed something out to “cut” it (from the next rewrite), a cross is an X. Copy, which has no proofreading equivalent, is C, because Copy starts with C. And paste (or insert) is V, because when you write text for insertion on paper you write a caret (which looks like a little “v”) above or below the “insertion point.”

It’s just coincidence that they’re next to each other on the keyboard.

By: Stephen

Stephen — Thu, 13 Apr 2006 03:56:13 +0000

I actually think keyboard shortcuts are for those users who do in fact have time to memorize things like Ctrl-X,C,V or Ctrl-1,2,3 - trading training for an increase in speed. You could have told your grandmother to right-click, then “Select All”, and the same for copy and paste.

That of course merely shifts the debate to be about the current Windows mouse configuration (left-click for selecting and positioning, right-click for a list of contextual operations).

But your original point still remains in tact (confusing menus, windows; there’s a whole lot of Bad in that conversation).

As an aside, this weblog seems like it could be a prime target for holy wars. I know people who have spent weeks debating where to position the OK and Cancel buttons on an OK/Cancel dialogue. Hope you’re ready ;-)

By: Pgan

Pgan — Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:56:56 +0000

By “ethnocentric” I meant that ^A would have a mnemonic in some languages but not others, which is unfair. This is not a problem if, say, Bulgarian uses instead ^V (for “vsichko”).

Agreed, Ctrl+1 etc. would be hard to use until you develop the reflexes (The Humane Interface distinguishes ease of learning from ease of use once learned).

Then every command in a shell and in Archy (RaskinCenter.org) should be translated to the user’s language? There is a lot of work for translation.

And situations like kiosks set in a different language — which are bound to occur — would pose great problems. User’s habits would work strongly against them.

Perhaps this is the better option, but I want to point out the trade-off.